While initial reactions to The Sims 4 Snowy Escape Expansion Pack seemed positive overall, many South Korean players have pointed out some problematic imagery featured in the pack that is insensitive towards the history between Japan and South Korea.
The frame from the reveal trailer that you can see down below shows a Sim interacting with a, what appears to be, a shrine. Although it hasn’t been fully clarified what you can actually do with this shrine, it does appear like the Sim is worshipping the shrine in some way.
TS4 EP10 REVEAL INGAME EN US 304TS4 EP10 REVEAL INGAME EN US 310
There’s one more frame in the trailer that could be showing the “Rising Sun” Flag:
These particular frames have caused the South Korean player community to share their thoughts and clarify why these additions to the pack are wrong.
As explained by them, the shrine worship and the rising sun flag are representations of Japanese colonialism and some of the terrible things that happened to people as a result of the Japanese during this time.
Here are some of the comments people left in the YouTube comments section:
Sims 4 Snowy Escape Reception
This is the result of Orientalism. I know that Ea likes Japanese culture. But this is too much. Korea had been forced by Japan. They forced Koreans to greet their religious buildings. Koreans had to be tortured or killed if they didn’t do what Japan wanted. Surprisingly, the religious building appears in the game.
Spread it out, please.Sims 4 snowy sports in Korea is now controversial. This is because it has a function called shrine worship.A shrine visit was when Korea was Japanese colonial era, when Japan set up shrines everywhere to inculcate the emperor’s ideology and forced Koreans to pay tribute.The Korean position, the most painful part of Korean history, and yet Japan is justifying visits to the shrine, which justifies war and colonial rule. Many Koreans are angry that EA added this to the game.I’m Korean and these sentences are translated, so please understand that the sentences can be awkward.Many Koreans are also disappointed with sims4 and EA and say they will not buy this pack again.I am very disappointed and angry as a Korean about EA, which contains shrine worship in the game.Buying this game is your choice, but buying a game pack that justifies one country’s colonial rule and justifies Korea’s painful history that is still unresolved is your freedom. But I hope you know what this pack means and buy it.Thank you for reading.
Real ea, foreign users, and other people don’t even think about others… I just want you guys to have fun while playing ㅠ Of course, I think Japanese culture should be respected as Japanese culture. Is there a reason to view the symbol with wounds on Koreans as a culture? Is there a reason to accept it as a culture and put it in a game that Koreans also enjoy? Also, there will certainly be Korean users who buy this pack, and if you keep watching and playing that interaction, it will become dull.
– Translated via Google Translate
I’m really disappointed that with all the work EA claimed to be doing to be culturally conscious of what they were doing with this pack they ignored so much of their Asian audience beyond Japan. I was so excited for this pack before that. For those who don’t know why it’s so upsetting (specifically for the Korean people in comments, I lived there and studied the history extensively) the shrine worship and the rising sun flag are representations of Japanese colonialism and some of the terrible things that happened to people as a result of the Japanese during this time. I could make several comparisons to some negative imagery that we westerners might make but I really don’t know if this is the place for that. If you are interested or want to understand I would suggest looking up Japanese colonialism in other countries (again I specifically know about Korea personally, and am speaking in support of the Korean people I know and love and the country that has become my second home).
If the shrine and the jacket that were shown in The Sims 4 Snowy Escape’s Reveal Trailer are exactly what the South Korean players described them to be then EA is in some hot waters.
Hopefully The Sims Team will make a statement soon regarding these features in the game.
Reticulating splines as a webmaster for Sims Community over the last 11 years. You can find me here writing articles and doing reports on your favorite life sim games, among other things!
People are comparing the shrines to the muslim garments in the game so i’d like to point out: while yes they are religious garments, they are also cultural garments. Wearing a head scarf doesn’t necessarily make one a muslim; there are places in the world where tourists are required to wear them, and there are a lot of young people who wear them as a part of their culture, even if they’re not that religious themselves. The same could be said about the christmas and hanukkah items in the game: while of religious origin they aren’t exclusive to religious people, but a cultural item. I celebrate christmas yet i was raised atheist, and i’m sure that applies to many people. What the sims doesn’t have is prayer matts, the torah, a bible, a church… and i think a shrine should be added to that list. There needs to be made a seperation for cultural items that have religious origin and purely religious items/places. Yes, a visit to a shrine is a big part of japanese customs, but so is praying or going to church in every other culture, and there is just some things that need to be left out of games that want to be inclusive to everyone.
Gg
4 years ago
Hello. I heard your opinion. However, this is Korea’s heartbreaking history. Apology never ends, it is a documented history. It’s painful for everyone, but many people can’t wash away the pain, but should we see it again in the game?
It is wrong to show ignorance and ignore Korean history. Ignorance is not a weapon. Like saying that you look as good as you know~
Think about it. Do you want to witness a painful history in the game? I don’t know your answer, but we don’t want to meet, so we made a request to EA. Korean users are also users who can enjoy games easily and have that right.
If the memory is that painful why are we supposed to believe you’d even buy a expansion set in Japan?
I was looking forward to the Shintoism aspect of this pack. Selfish racist assholes who blame all Shintoists and Japanese for the actions of soldiers with outdated moral sensibilities following orders and if I’m remembering correctly doing so under the influence of more drugs than you can find at a pharmaceutical warehouse. Is irrational and unfair. I seriously doubt you even suffer from trans generational trauma given forcing Shintoism on Korea was not even the most immoral thing Japan did in that war. Not to mention why is there no respect for the American value of “freedom of religion” given EA is an American corporation?
Or maybe just maybe, it should be illegal to pretend that things in everyday Japanese culture are somehow explicitly singling out Koreans. Do you remove Christianity from everything because of Imperialism? No you don’t, why? Because there’s nothing inherently evil in the religion itself just some of the people who practice it. Shintoism is the same way.
There are sooo many ppl trying to confuse this issue. It is neither about jealousy nor hysteria. The point is- THERE ARE PROBLEMS in this pack! And yeah, they are problematic I think coz I’ve googled and read some articles about S.Korea and Japan, and got to know there had been the far more complicated history then I thought.
It is too hard to judge after seeing only this comment section, dudes 😮
Yes,
People who are uneducated about the issues should do their own research, or AT LEAST a 2 minute google search before they put their uneducated opinions forward.
It’s not their fault that they’re uneducated about east Asian history that goes back decades and centuries and more. They don’t learn it as part of basic schooling, that’s not their fault.
But PLEASE for the love of whatever they believe in, these people need to spewing ignorance.
yupyup
4 years ago
yup, this is a game. just game.
I want to recommend that next pack ‘spring in germany’
please add new Nazi’s Hakenkreuz flag
I like Germany more than Japan
Because it was Japanese who killed my family NOT NAZZI
So please let me use that nazzi’s flag too
there is no “Willy Brandt” in japan
Japan has never apologized,
Japan gave money to Park Jung-hee(=Masao Takaki Dedicates Loyalty to the King of Japan)
Only $300 million, The money was not received by the victim.
please Japan asks Park Jeong-hee’s daughter to return the money
there are comments above that quote how Japan has apologised. Please stop lying.
And comparing what the Nazis did to this, let me tell you as a Jew, that is completely out of line, please stop with that too.
and as many have said, that’s a fan, not a flag. Are all of you missing your glasses?
Please stop saying Koreans shouldn’t voice pain and anger caused by imperial Japan’s atrocities, that is completely out of YOUR line.
Sure Japan made some pacifying gestures (inadequate mostly), but you also don’t know the complicated political, economical and cultural implications behind those gestures, let alone the long ass history between Korea and Japan.
And by your logic, I hope you’d be ok with EA putting in swastikas on clothing in a hypothetical “Asian” pack because it’s a buddhist symbol. I hope you’ll have YOUR glasses on then.
I’m unsure if you’re the same commenter from above, I’ll guess so. You stated above that they hadn’t apologised, and continue to say that they have made “pacifying gestures” and that they are “inadequate mostly” (judged by whom? by you?). If you scroll up a bit, there is a very long and good post with dates of all the times the Japanese or the Japanese government has apologised; usually in the presence of South Korean government officials – who never interrupted the Japanese to say that such “pacifying gestures” (as you deem them) were “inadequate”.
I have read history as a hobby, as I am interested in it, since I was a young kid, since I was eight years-old. I think you saying that “you also don’t know the long ass history between Korea and Japan” is crude and inaccurate. I would suggest you to stop assuming things about other people without asking them first, it’s quite impolite.
I indeed know of he significance of the Swastika for Indian esotericism and culture. I for one can separate the terrible use it was given by the Nazis and Nazism, to the positive and honest use that it has been given by Hindus and Buddhism, especially since its use dated much earlier than the Nazis. To brand India, Buddhism, or Hindus in general – as Nazi sympathizers would be so ridiculous and inaccurate, that your comparison is making me feel almost insulted.
AK
4 years ago
I’m from South Korea, but those who get easily mad about Japanese Culture called “Dae-kkae-moon” and it’s dealt as a mental diseases. Dae-kkae-moons insult Japanese and their culture but loves and post about nintendo switch games, photos of Japanese snack and sushi, and boasting their Japan themed possessions. They are absolutely double-faced. And one more thing, although my ancestor helped independence army of Korea before, but I learned about ‘cultural relativism’ and chose ‘coexistense’ with Japan. We are living 21st century and need to be mature citizens. Do not take it serious to Dae-kkae-moons, they are just attention seekers and just want to be regarded as a nationalist.
Don’t give them some overthetop, biased infos already…. “Dae-kkae-moon” is more like politically offensive word(assaulting both current South korean president and his followers) in the first place.
ilbon yeerasu mungae inge anira sinsa chambae rang ukillgi ga munje in gu mollasu hanenmall yeeno? hagin ni gorilla rang saram yeezzonggyobae ro taeunan neoun yeerasu sanggak mottagi TT
Bei
4 years ago
Why are white americans fuming about Koreans being upset? It doesn’t fucking affect you so why do you care about EA having to change a clothing texture and an animation? Why does it tilt y’all so much, that you have to write essays in the comments, explaining how “SJWs are ruining the games for you” and “people are overly sensitive”.
Thank you. Very good point.
And “iT’s JuSt A gAmE” in some of their words, so why are all these non-Asian people fuming here and everywhere else over a clothing texture and an animation that has nothing to do with them to begin with.
Ughhhhhh.
Jenna
4 years ago
If EA put any NAZI signs and Hitler salutein in this game. I totally agree with this disgusting Japanese things. I do not understand why other people(non Korean) speak to us “This is just game why so serious? Japan they have apologised ?!”
A nation that forgets its past has no future.
역사를 잊은 민족에게 미래는 없다.
한국사람들은 들으십시오. 무식한 외국인들 말에 상처받지 마시고 역사를 잊지 마십시다.
abc
4 years ago
Okay, I read all of the comments after mine and also there is one who think Japan is not apologing either. I’d like to talk about why I or we feel like that ‘although they apologized..’ So why this issue is still painful to Korean. Of course the judgement or searching more informations depends on you.
*Caution*
This text is dealing with political topics. And I feel sorry to talk about it in here. But there are many things that most of you might not know, so if you want to know, please read.
One user’s comment about quotes of the japan’s apologies are just from the Wikipedia and it didn’t include the explanation about the political, social background, and what is implicit in.. When it comes to Korean and Japanese grammar, it is totally okay to make sentences without subject and object, and each verb and adjective has really subtle meanings, so Japan made some of their ‘apologies’ so vague. Also many of the ‘apologies’ were made because they had to corrct the bad situation happened by their previous minister who didn’t reflect on their faults in history, (and this is being repeated) or because they wanted to make important contracts with Korea.
If someone stronger punches or slaps you in the face at work or school then says “I am sorry” half- giggling, is that an apology? Is he/she really reflecting on that? There are a lot of statements or actions that later retracted or contradicted or protecting their faults, as much as the number of apologies. (Why is these kind of data hardly translated in English?..) And the head of goverment often worshipped to Yasukuni Shrine even after just he had ‘apologized’, which means he paid tribute to the WAR CRIMINALS instead of VICTIMS..
I admit there are some thoughtful statements, but if they were genuine apologies, they should continue until nowadays. But the Japanese gov. of present day, keep distorting or concealing or stopping apologizing about what they did to victims like territory, enforced sex slaves, forced draft and etc. For instance, above three historical facts are distorted or deleted in the Japanese history education.
Finally, I would like to add this quote:
“Apologies should not end truth seeking nor stifle truth telling by victims. Instead, an apology should encourage a collective reckoning by society of conflict-related crimes or human rights violations carried out in the name of the state. An apology should open up space for accountability rather than close it.”
-from a ICTJ report about Japan’s apologies.
Jess
4 years ago
This is so hypocritical of the Sims team they used Christian imagery in Sims medieval, the hijab is an item in Sims 4, they reference Zen in Spa Day and ancestor worship in Island Living. Why the fuck Korean’s think they’ve got any exclusive rights to erase another cultures religion just because that religion was at one point run by dickbags is beyond me, if that were the case Islam and Christianity and basically every religion under the sun would never see the light of day. The Sims 4 is American they should stand by their belief in religious freedom and just censor the local Korean version and make the choice to worship one that is only done autonomously by sims from that world and everyone player controlled has to chose to do it. Problem solved.
dorm
4 years ago
There is just exactly same shrine motion in koreas culture.
Some koreans are lying and spreding fake information to feel their anti japan power. They are just jealous cuz shrine items arent out with korean traditional clothes.
That is exactly the type of uneducated redneck ignorant thinking that just perpetuates racism, ignorance and indifference to anything that didn’t directly affect white people.
You would not be saying the same thing if it was a German pack with an option to buy swastika flags to decorate with, and do the Nazi salute.
You’re blanketing all white people with Nazis .. that’s uneducated and ignorant.
I hope EA does address this issue, seems like they’ve dropped the ball again.
They have addressed the issue.
They got rid of the bowing motion and the Rising Sun swatches.
The shrines themselves are staying, don’t worry all of you non-Japanese people suddenly obsessed with observing Japanese religious customs
Uma
4 years ago
If you dont like the pack, dont buy it. Pls dont spoil the pack for others. Not all carry hatred in our hearts. Past is history. I just enjoy all packs. and Im Asian
Wisnu Zainesta
4 years ago
Bunch of douche bag thinking about game very seriously? Its a game dumbass! Do you have to take this serious?
Nicola
4 years ago
I think everyone needs too calm down for now, give EA a chance too comment, maybe it’s not what it looks like, I’m sure EA wouldn’t of done this on purpose
What in the world?
4 years ago
Honestly? Getting offended over imagery? That shows how bad and easily offended the Sims community and EAxis has become. No wonder Sims 4 is the worst iteration in the franchise. I play the game to escape real life, not have some silly controversial plum shoved down my throat. Sometimes I wonder why EA chose to pander to the SJW crowd in the first place. If you can’t respond to different opinions in a mature way, that says a lot about you as a person.
Besides, if EAxis is so worried about representation, why haven’t they included every single culture and tradition? Would that be too much for them? I thought they have intended for the Sims 4 to be all equal, happy joy joy, and a safe space simulator… unless I’m missing something. Why don’t they call it quits on the Sims franchise altogether, since TS4 is already lackluster without all the pandering?
Different person here, and yes, I understand your sarcasm and I agree completely. EA CANNOT possibly represent each and every country and culture, which is exactly why they should steer clear of topics and cultural aspects that can cause controversies like this.
Sims 4 has avoided putting symbols and aspects of cultures and religions that can be controversial so far (eg. no Christian cross, no “Chirstmas” (just winterfest), etc.) so why must they now include shinto and imagery that has even the slightest resemblance to the Rising Sun? Why couldn’t they replace those with other non-controversial aspects of Japanese culture?
If they had done a tad more research, they would’ve realized the potential for controversies and would’ve (and should’ve) left them out.
(+ The argument “Shinto is a huge part of Japanese culture and shrines are everywhere, of course it has to be included” doesn’t stand because religion has shaped the cultures of so many different countries but they’ve been left out)
Dude… This is their equivalent to Nazi imagery. I hate SJWs and Tumblr snowflakes, but this is a whole different level than just getting upset over lack of skintones (that you an easily just download CC for).
This isn’t just social justice bullshit. It’s decades of tension between two countries over colonialism and war crimes (real neat stuff, you know like human experimentation, mass murders, and sexual slavery). Expanding your worldview would probably help you understand cultural nuances outside the western world. You wouldn’t sound so ignorant.
queen beyonce
4 years ago
@Whut your arguments failed so much you had to use “whut” as your name. bad.
kpoop
4 years ago
If they are correct in their assertions, Christianity is also deeply rooted in war. The Koreans are crazy.
Christianity and “Christians” have committed atrocities in the name of religion. Hence symbols like the cross and items like the bible are not part of this game at all.
Same rule of avoiding potentially sensitive aspects of culture and religion should be applied to ALL packs.
Also, in case you can’t read, Koreans are not angry about the religion of Shinto. This issue is not about religion in and of itself at all.
As a Jewish person, the complaints about the inclusion of the shrines made me think about Christianity and it’s treatment of Jewish people throughout history. (And to some extent still do, sure it’s much much better nowadays, but it’s not all gone. Hell I have been personally insulted by Christians for not believing in Jesus, and I’m not even going to get into the connection between anti-jewish Christian theology and modern antisemitism.)
Sometimes the overwhelming presense of Christianity in American popular media can be quite obtrusive (sorry for the 5$ word) and make me feel uncomforterble. (it’s worst when it goes unacknowledged, as if the Christian elements are universal beliefs.) But I’m still having hard time grokking this complaint, I’m trying to change the shrine to a church or a cross in my mind and the worst reaction I can imagine myself having is simply avoiding this interaction.
Of course the Smis usually intentionally avoids real world religious symbols (Though I can think of a couple of exceptions), so ultimately removing the interacting might be the right decision simply for the sake of uniformity.
Suzan
4 years ago
Ok, so I see from this that there is symbolism in this pack that is offensive to South Koreans and I empathize with how this can be hurtful. I also think in this current environment, EA could be more proactive to make sure their content would not be offensive. That said, I’m deeply disappointed with comments that express that if you are not South Korean, you have no right to an opinion on this subject. Everyone has a right to an opinion on any subject and we should have the right to express our opinions showing respect to others. I’m bothered with the denial of these rights by some.
I don’t think it’s about the nationality but more about understanding the culture. Everyone is entitled to their opinions but making offensive or generalizing comments without actually knowing the context defies the purpose of the argument… Like I see some people sayinh krns are being over-sensitive but they don’t even care to know why…?
Anita
4 years ago
But no one makes that Korean worship that house. Lay simply somewhere in the garden. Build a fence around it so that no one goes there. The Japanese will worship their house if they want to. This is how we can find a place in the history of any nation.
May Warren
4 years ago
I am not familiar with the history between Korea and Japan and after seeing the trailer I try to find youtube reaction by either Koren or Japanese with no luck 🙁 … I will like to been educated on this important history matter, now this new pack seems inspired by Japanese culture( or Orientalisation let’s say) but if is Japanese I just looked on Wikipedia:
A Shinto shrine (神社, jinja, archaic: shinsha, meaning: “place of the god(s)”[1]) is a structure whose main purpose is to house (“enshrine”) one or more kami.[2] Its most important building is used for the safekeeping of sacred objects, and NOT for WORSHIP .[3] Although only one word (“shrine”) is used in English, in Japanese, Shinto shrines may carry any one of many different, non-equivalent names like gongen, -gū, jinja, jingū, mori, myōjin, -sha, taisha, ubusuna, or yashiro. (For details, see the section Interpreting shrine names.)
if this is the case again a poor and ignorant approach of EA on culture :-/ not happy!
From my understanding, Shinto shrine housed different kamis (divines) over the history. In modern Japan, it is more like a cultural activity with folklore than a religious practice, but during Japanese imperialism, shrines were installed and used to worship the Japanese emperor (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_Shinto). This is the image of Shinto that is most recalled by Koreans who were forced to worship, thus the reason for the negative feedback.
Honestly, yes I agree this was a poor approach on EA’s part
polish girl
4 years ago
actually, why would it be wrong in a LIFE SIMULATION game to have what is there in the real world? we can have shrines and swastikas and polish racism and everything good and bad in the game – you decide if your sims love it or hate it, join it or destroy it. isn’t it the game’s signature to play with life? and all of it’s aspects? just my opinion
oh my gosh, i just realised i wrote ‘polish racism’. didn’t mean it! it was in my head because of a comment above. polish people are not all racist, im not. i just meant in general racism and bad stuff. just wanted to put that out there. my bad.
Chill
4 years ago
not ALL Korean simmers are angry, only some of them are complaining. they do not represent the entire SK sims community, I would be really angry if we get zero content because of this, and I am definitely not the only one. The shrines themselves are not a problem at all, and there is no reason to connect this to the controversial shrines that are actually causing political problems. but I can also see some comments here expressing general hatred towards Koreans and I’m deeply frustrated by those too.
Just let EA do their thing and if you don’t like it, don’t buy it.
How many of the SK simmers that are offended were actually going to buy the pack to begin with if one of the main complaints is that this is Japanese inspired? It’s not like this isn’t the first time the sims has leaned towards Japan for inspiration in the franchise. I came across a japanese shrine before in the sims but I’m not sure if it’s from a previous game or custom content. I often see people who aren’t from the Shinto religion visit temples and shrines as a tourist attraction and this is sort of like that as the appeal for the game. Since the resources have already been used EA may very well take that feature out which will be a bit disappointing for certain gameplay styles/stories.
Christopher
4 years ago
Please, Koreans have proven to be too selfish, they say we should know about their history, but they did BLACKFACE and they skipped the accusations saying: Why are we supposed to know about black history? They’re not as educated as we thought, this is like the third korean tantrum of this kind of the year, such a shame for such an “advanced society”.
Koreans loooove their anti-black racism (just check most of the gaffes of their beloved K-Pop groups they love to export abroad) but also love to act all offended at the slight mention of Japan.
J
4 years ago
These things are not black and white. As a Korean myself, who lived in Korea for more than 10 years and went through my entirety of grade school days in Korean public school system, I learned a lot about Japanese occupation of Korea and the history behind it.
I am personally very interested in the history of the short lived Korean Empire, and the last end of Joseon Dynasty, and also the Japanese occupied Korea as I heard many stories from both my grandmas about that time. Forceful Shinto Shrine Worship was indeed used by the Japanese Government to make Koreans “황국민화” which basically means assimilating them to Japanese culture esp towards the end of the ’30s. Usually these forceful worships were required by big schools, gov departments, universities, christian organizations and buddhist organization. When the organization deny to worship, the organizations were then lowered in grade ( ex- from university to just vocation school) or forcefully dissolved. I see some people claim people were tortured and killed, and although that did happen a few times, especially for more well known activists from religious organization, the more common punishment for the general public was the forceful disassembly of their organization or the blockage of religious freedom.
Yes, it is a painful history for Koreans and even my Grandma said so as she was going to a prestigious woman’s high school during the ’30s and were forced to do shinto worship- However it is not the entire religion to be blamed for being problematic, it is more so the Japanese government’s audacity to use their religion as a tool to create more pain and discrimination is to be blamed for.
The biggest controversy with Koreans and Japanese shinto worship is not actually the entire shinto religion also, it is more so specifically the Yasukuni Shinto shrine in Tokyo where they have pretty barbaric WW2 war criminals there as deities to be worshipped for. All modern Japanese prime ministers pay specific tribute to these war criminals and mass murderers as gods, despite high criticism from Koreans and Chinese who were tortured and assimilated to a certain level culturally by those specific war criminals.
The truth is, Japan continued the same line of emperors that committed all the tragedies and massacres during that time until now- albeit they are ceremonial after the WW2 and quite detached from what they used to mean, but the history is still fresh enough to Koreans that it could be sensitive- Like how my grandma grew up under that regime, and to this day she still speaks complete fluent Japanese and uses Japanese words here and there.
These are all layered and complicated history in East Asian countries not just specific to Koreans, but mostly had a bigger impact for Koreans, Chinese, and Taiwanese people. I don’t think including a shinto shrine was the best move as you can see many people can be triggered from it- the reason behind it is partially rooted in true historical facts, but also behind it’s complicated relationship between the Japanese Government never owning up to their war crimes and Korean people projecting the anger towards the entirety of Japanese culture over specifically their government.
I personally do not like seeing the rising sun motif more as it has a more direct connection to the actual imperial government who is to be blamed for all the atrocity and tragedy that occurred in history of East Asia. So that kimono with a slight similarity to the rising sun motif is definitely tacky and shows lack of research in East Asian relations and history which is very complicated. I do think including a religious element like shinto shrine was risky as you can clearly see by the outrage, but to me it is more about people having awareness of which part of their history is to be blamed for.
I do not believe in condemning any entire religion or culture; condemning the entire shinto religion is not really what we should be focusing on to better the relationship and create clear factual history between the Korean people and Japanese people. So it is not black and white like that to my point of view- Although I understand the outrage because of the actions of the imperial Japanese government which still lingers culturally in the Korean peninsula.
I hope EA decides to drop the Kimono jacket with the motif of the rising sun on it- However the Shinto shrine issue would be a harder one to address- as to many regular Japanese people, it has been their culture for a very long time of worshipping. (I do strongly oppose the worship of Yasukuni Shinto shrine or any shrine that has a war criminal as a deity thought.) Maybe if they can tweak it so it could be more generally Asian, more Asian players would enjoy it. I believe if it was generally Buddhist themed which is somewhat of a universal culture which expands all over Asia, it would’ve been taken way better.
After all, it is a sim world not the actual Japan, so why not make it more of an universal Asian experience? Just my thoughts here. If anyone found my comment offensive, I sincerely apologize.
This is the sentiment I follow as a fellow Korean. And it concerns me that this is overlooked while aggressive, ignorant, propagandist and possibly racist responses aren’t.
It’s not about the religion itself but about the complicated implications of it.
Why include a specific religion in the first place if even a relatively universal cultural events like Christmas is going to be renamed as Winterfest? With a little research on the shinto shrine, the Sims team ought to have known that it would be problematic.
I also agree that a generally Buddhist theme would have been less controversial, if the Sims really wanted to insist the inclusion of this stereotypical ‘Asian’ image.
Perhaps to non Asian players the negative reaction from Korean simmers might seem like a sudden burst of anger, but really this isn’t the first time EA has been culturally insensitive about representing Asians. Rising sun motif has been used almost consistently throughout the Sims series.
It is not OK just because you see that it is commonly used elsewhere. Rather, that itself shows the extent of unawareness and ignorance in understanding the significance of a symbol that is so closely associated with war. Yes, there are arguments about whether or not that association is valid, but how can you say otherwise when that flag was hung up literally next to Hakenkreuz? (https://img.theqoo.net/qGHsG) That it was a sign of oppression and violence less than a hundred years ago?
Don’t call out offended people butt-hurt just because you are too ignorant and lazy to do a proper research to understand the complex Asian history and relationships. If your claim is that it’s just a game, why are you so butt-hurt about removing a possibly insensitive feature? It’s just a game as you say, easily replaceable by any other orientalist contents many so desire. I’m sure there are many other beautiful Japanese prints and activities other than the rising sun and paying tribute to the shrines.
I am not going to speak for any other cultures because it is not my place to do so, likewise how as a person with no relevant cultural or historic understanding cannot tell others how to feel.
Thank you for this eloquent comment.
As a fellow Korean (with a very similar background as yours!), I couldn’t have explained /summarized the issues more clearly, and I really wish the Sims team could see this exact comment somehow.
I myself have a great grandfather who was tortured weekly by Japanese police (pulling out nails, beatings, etc.) to write pro-Japanese propaganda, not to mention countless other Koreans (and other Asians) who were victims of horrendous acts of colonial Japan.
But I wish people would understand that
1) Koreans are not against the ancient religion itself or the people who practice it peacefully today. It’s not really about the religion itself at all
2) One cannot draw direct parallels between the impact of Japan on east Asian history and current sentiments and Germany on European (and world) history, because of how differently Germany and Japan have been dealing with their own past. (e.g. Lack of proper education in schools about Japan’s war crimes, injustices against Korean victims of sexual slavery, political figures continuously worshipping war criminals at Yasukuni, etc.)
Anyways, I think your suggestion to change to buddhist theme makes a lot of sense, and is helpful feedback that the sims team could use (and could have used so that this controversy didn’t have to happen to begin with)
Besty
4 years ago
Maybe the sims shouldn’t do any cultural inspired themes . It just cause so much confusion and backlash every time .they should really focus on the gameplay , cars , farms , better babies ect. Culture is such a touchy subject . Also they can’t possibly represent every culture anyways . Or they can just stick to the small free updates with a new shirt and hat .
culture is a huge part of life. i personally want more of it. i love diversity and i love the styles and clothes and food from all around the world.
jaks
4 years ago
one can only imagine Jovan Jovic’s face when he sees this mess of comments lol
Mimi
4 years ago
I thought that too…
Their getting mad because ep isn’t based in their country…
But there is some reasons they keep saying like that.
Got anti Japanese education and believing everything or believing convenient fabrication history for them.
And for money…and another…
Although, people trying to get along are increase recently than before.
Anyway, I hope players like that pack and enjoy it because I’m glad based on Japan!
And what makes you think your “education” (if at all) is not biased, and that it’s not fabricated” in some way shape or form?
I’m Korean, and I’m perfectly fine with the pack being Japanese. There are other parts of Japanese culture that are cool and not offensive.
That’s not the issue.
Seriously people
4 years ago
Hey guess what!! ITS A GAME! if your offended by it then don’t play it. Call of duty is a game about killing other people, Farcry is about cultures killing and kidnapping people… Shall I go on. Sims is a game about playing how you want to play it’s accuracy on today’s cultures shouldn’t have a say in what they choose to put in the game when there are other games that are way “worse” but in the end they are all just GAMES
But shrine worship is not limited to WWii. EA could’ve made a toggle to not make the sims bow instead of removing it altogether.
V
4 years ago
Wow I can’t believe I’m reading some of these comments in 2020. Some of you are ignorant af and should be ashamed of yourselves.
If you are not a part of the culture that has been affected by the colonialism, you don’t get a say in whether they are “too sensitive or not” or whether they should accept the apology or not.
Also, yes this is a game, however EA made a stance that they are also socially and culturally aware and are trying to be inclusive. So it’s also very understandable that if this game is offensive to many people, they should learn from it. For all of you that’s just saying this is a game get over it, you wouldn’t be saying that if something that was gut wrenchingly offensive (like the Nazi symbol) was included in a pack called “European Vacation”.
No one from Korea is saying they are offended because it’s not based on their culture or that it’s about Japan. They’re simply pointing out EA’s ignorance, orientalism, and lack of education on history. They should have never included something controversial and offensive.
If you are a non-Korean person commenting here about how sensitive Koreans are, that’s a clear sign of white privilege and you should be ashamed of yourselves.
Kelly
4 years ago
This is a game, not a subject to learn in school. Are you kidding me with this! This world is going to hell and is becoming communist. Every one is butthurt, get over it. It’s just a very cool game and a complete fantasy with made up worlds. Why don’t the offended go and create their own communistic games, where everybody’s the same, and everything is equal and peachy keen.
Butthurt well I am butthurt about Star Wars. How come in real life we don’t have spaceships yet that is because we are too idiotic arguing about what happened in the past. Most of those people are dead. And you’re talking about colonizers well then you’re going to have to look at white people and don’t do anything their culture dose: can’t speak English, French, German, etc, can’t eat any of their food, can’t wear their clothes, can’t listen to their music. Now same goes for Japanese so now what am I supposed to do with my Toyota drive it off the bridge? Is this what the world really wants? Punishing a culture for its past? This is disgusting.
Oh, yeah. Then I wanna see your reaction if EA has drawn a design of “NAZI FLAG”. PUT YOURSELF IN OTHER’S SHOES!!! It’s not about it’s just the game or not. Rising Sun Flag is the insult to other Asian countries, like Korea.
I’m majoring Japanese language in college and I love Japanese culture. But, Shrine Worship and Rising Sun Flag? That is absolutely the problem that we should consider.
When japan had succeeded taking control of Korea’s solid, they forced Koreans to participate in Shrine worship, if not, Japanese cops harshly punished them.
Rising Sun Flag represents the imperialism and invasion same as NAZI FLAG.
Just a game?? Then why EA had claimed to advocate LGBT and BLACK LIVES MATTER?? Even though it’s just a game as you said??
I agree with the freedom of expression and I think too much Political Correction should not interfere the development of game. BUT, IT’S THE ANOTHER PROBLEM, NOT A COMMUNISM AND NOT A PC ISSUES.
Ok so KOREAN FLAG = NAZI FLAG
In you theory, South Korean Flag should be banned at all because it represents massive rape and massacre done by South Korea in Vietnam War. The worst thing is that South Korea government has never apologized what they did, and is still continuing to insult the Vietnamese victims by revisionism. Shame on your hypocrisy.
Nazis killed my great-grandparents so if the flag was in the game I just wouldn’t use it, would I be offended no. Because that’s in the past and now it’s just sad history.
I honestly think there should be nothing political in the game or religious but it is what it is it’s creative expression. Everybody is so fragile that it’s ridiculous no wonder there’s so much mental health problems now n days. People can’t express themselves without being backlashed at as they might offend a few millions out of billions of people. It’s just a game just don’t use those items.
This is their equivalent to Nazi imagery. I don’t like SJWs either, but a less narrow worldview and a slight idea of other culture’s nuances would help you understand WHY they are so angry. This is a touchy subject and there are still tensions over Japan’s WWII war crimes.
I agree. While on one hand I understand the frustration over these two pictures, I also think that the young generation of South Korea have to stop this feud between Japan and Korea. Practically all European countries have forgiven Germany a looong time ago, and we visit old war bunkers to learn about horrific past, but do not become aggravated, because it’s in the past.
It’s time to forgive – and celebrate Japanese culture for what it is.
And as Kelly’s saying, while it’s inspired by Japanese culture, the game is a fantasy! Just change what the shrines mean in your game – you have the freedom and power to do that.
Stop getting offended just to be offended. You can avoid using the shrine interaction, you can choose a different swatch for the yukata, I’m sure there are plenty others.
I’m a Korean, and I personally have mixed feelings about this. I agree you that the relationship between Korea and Japan should be clarified one way or another, but do know that it is very complicated. The very vestige of Japanese imperialism is deeply woven into Korean history, economy, politics and of course the nation’s social feelings even until now. It’s not about just being “offended.”
And your Nazi analogy is quite inaccurate – yeah many European countries got over Germany, but you certainly don’t want EA to put Nazi flags on some frickin sims’ clothes lol. I can also kinda imagine why EA adopted shrine culture – it’s a part of Japanese culture – but as it is indicated in the original Korean comment, the concept is not very comfortable for the people living in the once-colonized country. Yes, I know that Japan has many gods and most of the shrines are for worshiping gods. But the concern is that some Japanese shrines have imperialists who had done horrible things to their colonies and many politicians in Japan (usually on far-right) still bow to that. It’s a political matter too. Imagine that there’s a monument worshiping dedicated to war criminals in your game that you can make your sim bow to.
Personally I don’t know about the shrine, but I certainly oppose to the clothes with rising sun imagery. (The situation’s quite funny when you realize that this is an American game lol) The game should be enjoyable to everyone, especially when Korean users are accounting for a significant proportion of sims lovers – after all it’s a new ‘snowy’ expansion pack, not ‘Japan’ expansion pack. Why include it if it’s controversial?
I agree that the rising sun imagery should be taken down and that they should keep the shrine interactions. But I will point out that the pack description does literally say the furniture is “Japanese-inspired” and all the words they use are Japanese such as “onsen”, “genkan”, and “tatami”. So I think it’s safe to say that this world is specifically Japanese-based. I would get rid of the rising sun imagery since that was the official flag of the military, but keep the shrine worshipping since that is still something that modern japanese people do.
Wow. You’re likening Korea’s subjugation by Japan, and erasure of their culture, and Koreans being FORCED to worship at Japanese shrines, to communism? Do you even know what Communism is? Do you realize communism and colonialism are two different things? Like, I’m sorry Karen (I mean, Kelly) if other people being hurt is like super inconvenient for you, but they’re not obligated to keep you comfortable just because you don’t have empathy. Sociopath.
Maybe you need to embrace some new subjects, in fact, because you sound like a moron right now. You could certainly benefit from some empathy, because you sound like a selfish asshole right about now. While I’m sure you’ve lived a fairly privileged life, I’m sure there are things of value to you that would upset you if they were misrepresented. Like your religion, or the history of your country (since you’re white and probably American, I can’t say culture. lol).
The Sims is a life simulation game, that means it should be enjoyable by ALL people, not just a select few. While I agree that this is a game and I don’t think fictional characters should be held to human social standards of conduct, I do believe that everyone has a right to their opinions and how a game makes them feel when they play it. Not everyone’s experience with TS4 is going to be the same. For you to diminish someone else’s experience by trying to eclipse it with your own is not only showing your white privilege, but you are telling people that you only care about your experience with the game and no one else’s. What kind of message are you trying to get across? You call people overly sensitive, but these things never happened to you. So who are you to tell another person how they should feel about an experience? As a white female this offends even me that you would act and say something so insensitive. You can’t got through life only looking through your own perspective, you should never close yourself or your mind off to seeing things from another’s perspective. I stand in solidarity with my Korean sisters and I will not be buying this pack of that is the case. As a company EA has a track record a mile long of doing shady and immoral things to turn a quick profit.
Your whole response is kind of contradicting itself what about Japanese what if they want the shrine. You are right this is supposed to be enjoyed by everyone so now Japanese might not enjoy it because they don’t have the shrine.
You could read my comment down below and see if any of this has ever happened to me. Don’t be accusative especially online.
If that’s what your Korean friends are saying I get it but you should never as a white female speak for another race or culture.
simmer
4 years ago
Koreans have no complaints about Sims making expansion packs with Japanese culture. The only thing that matters is the shrine worship interaction. It is related to the pain of Japan’s colonial rule of Korea. Many Koreans who refused to worship the shrine were killed by the Japanese military. That is less than a hundred years old. So We want EA to delete the interaction with the shrine worship.
People were slaughtered for not worshipping these shirines. And Japan dosen’t apologize or even acknowledge these past including genocidal rape. And EA just represented symbol of Japanese war crime in sims4. This is why korean people including other country that suffered from Japanese war crime are so mad.
Boohoo
4 years ago
Oh my god come on it’s a Japanese culture based game pack.. why are the korean getting offended over Shintoism temple worshiping which is all over Japan and the sun rays which is not even the same rising sun imperialist one which is red. They wanna say they feel offended by Japanese imperialism, other countries like Malaysia, Indonesia and Singapore had it too but we got over it and moved on. Again, all these are japanese culture. Get your offended asses checked. Sheesh
‘got it and moved on’ lol you speak of war as if it’s a common cold. So tell me, how many years was Singapore colonized? How was it colonized? How many torture camps were set up? How many people were forced to become sex slaves? A black and white photo of you will still be a photo of you. Get your history book checked.
I don’t know why my opinion be accepted differently depending on my nationality but if I must validate, no I am a Korean. And please don’t misunderstand my response as a hatred towards Japanese culture. I have no problems (and I assume a lot of other Koreans too) with the theme itself. Cool. Japanese theme.
The only concerns I do share with many are on the shrine and the rising sun pattern. The sims have been sensitive about including religious features, and filtered them out to be universally acceptable cultural activities instead (i.e. winterfest). Shrine seems a tad too religious + the motion, like we don’t pray to the Christmas tree do we?
But at the same time, I understand that it is a common cultural, not necessarily religious, practice in Japan and removing it could offend Japanese simmers. That’s why I think the sims team was insensitive and shouldn’t have included it in the first place.
What’s so contradicting? It’s a culture with a political root enforced during a recent war. To Koreans, shinto shrine is a symbol of oppression and aggression. To those unaware like you, it’s a culture. A little research would tell that it could be problematic to include it and yet the sims do so, to the extend of making the sims ‘bow’ to it. Hell, if they really wanted to include shrines for the sake of aesthetics in a fictional game world, why not just let the sims throw a coin into it instead? To me it just seems like a poor attempt on the sims part to create this orientalist image using the most streotypical motion as possible.
And I really don’t understand why you would call out others for being selfish and disrespectful because they feel disrespected by insensitive portrayals?? You tried to disapprove my argument because I was seemingly not Korean and yet you speak for what is acceptable for Koreans to be offended about and what is not???
Are you really concerned about Koreans discriminating Japanese when that is entirely not the case, or are you just conviniently picking on it because you are worried that you will not be able to play a game? Come on, you said it yourself. How can you be judgemental when you don’t understand the history and the culture. That’s a selfish behavior isn’t it?
Come on… you know nothing about their history too. You can’t talk like that when you are not Singaporean. Stop being rude if you want the history of your home country respected. Why you guys are so selfish and disrespectful to other cultures?
Exactly. I can’t talk like that when I don’t understand Singaporean history. Because I know that no matter then extent, a painful history is still painful.
So why are you telling Koreans to get their offended asses check? Why are you offended by my comment?
Korea is getting more and more popular everyday because of Kpop, Kdramas, and KBBQ food. So don’t be too jealous. Lots of Southeast Asian countries are jealous of Korea lol.
You probably didn’t realize, but this person’s using the name of a Korean ex-president who won the Nobel Peace Prize (Kim dae-jung), and is hated & mocked by extreme right. This person’s not being genuine, they’re just trolling and trying to stir shit up.
ImmortalAbsol
4 years ago
Context context context.
This is a Sims Japan analogue.
Meaning this is either a Japanese person or someone who chose to vacation to Japan paying respect to a Japanese shrine.
Not a S.Korean being forced to greet a Japanese shrine.
It’s like saying that we can’t have the Galar region in Pokémon because of the historical British empire having happened.
So why don’t we just add Nazi salute in Sims 4 so neo nazi person or someone who chose to vacation to austria paying repsect to hitler can enjoy this game.
Julia
4 years ago
If you really look at the swatch screenshot it’s not a rising sun but a stylized fan. Maybe that’s still considered too similar but we should stick to reality here.
Alpha Man
4 years ago
If you think that rising sun symbol and flag is okay to use, than you shouldn’t say anything to people who use nazi swastika or Confederate flag.
If you think japanese occupation of korea is just past, than you should think that slavery in america and holocost of nazi is just a past.
Honestly wouldn’t be surprised if EA scrapped the entire project, and gave us all a stuff pack instead
Brandon Thomas
4 years ago
Stop being so over-sensitive! It’s Japanese THEMED do you know what that means? It’s not a true Historical Analogy. Look hard enough and some of you will FIND something to be offended about. Just play and shut up.
Amber
4 years ago
Shrines in Japan are used for protection of places than a place of worship and the pattern on the clothing looks like Surihaku pattern which is usually made with gold foil (yellow colour) and is a ‘spiny ray ‘ looking flower. It is used for theatrical costumes and formal ceremonies on their kimonos. Not trying to excuse anything and I truly respect and love the korean culture. But just sharing information
Sarah
4 years ago
They’ve ripped Christianity from the game to the point where we’re calling Christmas “Winterfest” and Valentine’s Day “Love Day”, but now we’re possibly getting shrine worship? No thanks.
Exactly.
If EA’s going to leave out religion out of the game (which they should, to avoid all this shit), they should leave out ALL of it.
They only brought in Shinto because it’s eXoTiC and we love good ol’ orientalism.
Ellen
4 years ago
A lot of people are missing that Koreans are focusing on their history, not the Japanese culture itself.
EA, you HAVE TO delete the content that would hurt your players, not because the culture is wrong, but because there ARE some heartbreaking histories.
heartbreaking histories? lady, this is not an historical soap opera.
why don’t we delete windenburg too, since it is heavily inspired by germany and well… we all know what they’ve done.
hmm?
Some koreans are wrong and lying about their logics of “shrine blah blah”. That shrine thing in game is just like wishing well not even religious one. They are 24/7 under anti japan mood and speaks out boycotting everything about japan but sneakly enjoy japan cluture. Lol.
Min
4 years ago
I imagine there’s plenty of things in Japanese culture that isn’t highly offensive and hurtful to other Asian countries?
I don’t really understand some of these “Defend EA at all cost” type comments.
EA should have done their research, simple as.
Sure, keep it as a Japanese pack but simply change the offending things to something without such a dark history? That simple.
none did lmao, i remember it. and none does now either. sims 2 has an active player base, with piles of defualts/overrides of anything you could think about, and yet none has default replaced or made a hider for the oh-so-insulting shrine.
i’m not an ea stan. i have bashed them plenty for their many various sins. to be truly honest and having played all four sims games [and their many spinoffs], i think sims 4 is crap. nonetheless, the reaching in this thread -that many have pointed out correctly- needs to be addressed – we can’t add burglars because it triggers those that have been robbed. we can’t add a shrine because it triggers the koreans. at this point, why have a game at all if everyone is going to act so offended about everything? maybe we should make the sims 4 into a chair simulation game, maybe that won’t offend anyone. well, it may offend some tables i guess.
krishna
4 years ago
@So mature you’re not very mature if you’re typing “amirite”, lady. Or maybe it’s because you’re degree-less? Learn proper spelling and get back to me; oh, and shave that beard, it doesn’t suits you.
A Bewildered Chinese
4 years ago
Rising sun flag? Really? All of my Chinese Simmer friends thought that was a chrysanthemum or firework pattern and still fail to see any connection at all. As for the shrines, they’re quite popular attractions for Chinese tourists and none of us see any problem with the game including it. Sure, there’re a small number of Chinese simmers I know who were appalled at the overall Japanese theme but even them didn’t find the shrines and that specific pattern particularly disturbing. I’m still befuddled why Korean simmers feel the need to speak for us.
A.
4 years ago
The fact that people are glossing over this as if it is not serious is disgusting, especially the Imperial JPN flag on the CAS item.
That flag was flown by Nazi-allied Japan in WW2, and Japan still refuses to acknowledge, much less make amends, for it’s genocidal war-crimes in Korea and other East Asian nations.
It is that serious and we all need to be pressuring the Sims team to remove the imagery before release.
Idgaf if your weeb fantasies get ruined by victims of genocide speaking out against hate symbols, cope.
Yeah. Seems like almost no one cares. That’s precisely the problem.
As long as you non-Asian people get to play with some cOoL, eXoTiC, aSiAn content, who cares about colonialism and genocide and erasing history.
Do you care about moslemic stuff and the feeling Christians get because of that? We are still attacked and murdered by them and that is not 100 years ago…
So where was the ‘Asian’ protest when EA implemented the moslem clothing including the hijab that also is a symbol for discrimination of females AND discrimination of Christian/Western culture?
That’s my point, in case you can’t read sarcasm.
So many clueless people going “omg super cool-looking Asian content uwu!!”
But then again, people who don’t know / don’t care to know / don’t care at all are the main audience of this game so in the end all of this bickering most likely won’t matter
I am aware that they are painful for Korean because they remind them of the period when they were colonised by Japan and Japan was really horrible during that period. However, I don’t think it’s wise for EA to remove the animation just to appease the Koreans coz bowing to the shrine is part of Japanese culture.To be frank, it’s unfair for Japanese simmers as well because bowing at the shrine is part of their culture and they have been practicing it way before World War II. Hence, I reckon it’s better to make it optional so we can decide whether our sims can bow at the shrine.
omfg
4 years ago
To people saying Windenburg isn’t problematic for Jewish people, etc.:
Germany and Japan differ COMPLETELY in how they dealt with the atrocities they committed in the past. Japan doesn’t teach the history properly and their leader Abe is known for going to the problematic Yasukuni shrine that commemorates war criminals, and Japan tried to make their Korean sexual slavery victims shut up with a few dollars (and the list goes on and on). THAT is why the general sentiment about the history in Korea is very negative and why it’s so freaking insensitive for EA to include imagery that brings up nightmares of Japanese colonialism for Koreans.
you just offended me with your title because i am a big worshipper of God and you offending Him in your title really offended me. you see how that works?
@polish girl Please get a life LOL! Would you truly like to see swastikas and hateful things in your sims game? The Sims is a life SIMULATION game, it is ALTERED REALITY where you can get away from hateful things like this in real life. As a Polish-German person, I find you completely ignorant and holding hatred to your own Polish culture, you’re disgracing the Polish name. Would you like to see your Polish sim family get taken to a nazi concentration camp too? Would you like to see that family broken up and tortured? Please get a brain and educate yourself on your own culture, dummy.
you have no idea about me. all i mean is that it’s life simulation and if you search the gallery there are hitlers and other dictators and worse and people play with that stuff. i don’t but it’s not like the game has nothing bad in it. if you look at the game as a perfect paradise then yes, swastikas would be a bad idea in the game. but if you saw swastikas in any other war game you wouldn’t have a problem with it cos it’s just history.
Devils advocate, but escapism is what it is to YOU. Yes others as well, but definitely not everyone. It is a SIM which by it’s nature can be a completely different thing to whoever is playing it… Maybe someone wants to RP a gritty dystopia, that’s up to them. So neither of you are suggesting incorrect ways of playing it because there isn’t one, however it is incorrect to try to sensor the way others choose to play. The idea of Swastikas all over the place is offensive to me personally, but then so is the idea of telling other people how to live so and most importantly I recognise that my opinion doesn’t count for shit in someone else’s game anyway, and it is perfectly possible to just not do the things that you don’t want to do.
Japanology student
4 years ago
Okay, so here is a short history lesson for everyone who thinks that appearance of shrines in this expansion pack is racist:
Shrines are the biggest symbol of Shinto, a very, very old Japanese native religion. Shrines were used for kami (animistic spirits and deities) worship, way before clashes between Japan and Korea.
So, please, before jumping on the ‘let’s judge this expansion pack based on what we read online’ train, try to inform yourselves about histories of Japan and Korea.
People are comparing the shrines to the muslim garments in the game so i’d like to point out: while yes they are religious garments, they are also cultural garments. Wearing a head scarf doesn’t necessarily make one a muslim; there are places in the world where tourists are required to wear them, and there are a lot of young people who wear them as a part of their culture, even if they’re not that religious themselves. The same could be said about the christmas and hanukkah items in the game: while of religious origin they aren’t exclusive to religious people, but a cultural item. I celebrate christmas yet i was raised atheist, and i’m sure that applies to many people. What the sims doesn’t have is prayer matts, the torah, a bible, a church… and i think a shrine should be added to that list. There needs to be made a seperation for cultural items that have religious origin and purely religious items/places. Yes, a visit to a shrine is a big part of japanese customs, but so is praying or going to church in every other culture, and there is just some things that need to be left out of games that want to be inclusive to everyone.
Hello. I heard your opinion. However, this is Korea’s heartbreaking history. Apology never ends, it is a documented history. It’s painful for everyone, but many people can’t wash away the pain, but should we see it again in the game?
It is wrong to show ignorance and ignore Korean history. Ignorance is not a weapon. Like saying that you look as good as you know~
Think about it. Do you want to witness a painful history in the game? I don’t know your answer, but we don’t want to meet, so we made a request to EA. Korean users are also users who can enjoy games easily and have that right.
If the memory is that painful why are we supposed to believe you’d even buy a expansion set in Japan?
I was looking forward to the Shintoism aspect of this pack. Selfish racist assholes who blame all Shintoists and Japanese for the actions of soldiers with outdated moral sensibilities following orders and if I’m remembering correctly doing so under the influence of more drugs than you can find at a pharmaceutical warehouse. Is irrational and unfair. I seriously doubt you even suffer from trans generational trauma given forcing Shintoism on Korea was not even the most immoral thing Japan did in that war. Not to mention why is there no respect for the American value of “freedom of religion” given EA is an American corporation?
Damn, it should be ilegal to be this ignorant, stupid and selfish.
Or maybe just maybe, it should be illegal to pretend that things in everyday Japanese culture are somehow explicitly singling out Koreans. Do you remove Christianity from everything because of Imperialism? No you don’t, why? Because there’s nothing inherently evil in the religion itself just some of the people who practice it. Shintoism is the same way.
Then why are there no churches in Windenburg?
There are sooo many ppl trying to confuse this issue. It is neither about jealousy nor hysteria. The point is- THERE ARE PROBLEMS in this pack! And yeah, they are problematic I think coz I’ve googled and read some articles about S.Korea and Japan, and got to know there had been the far more complicated history then I thought.
It is too hard to judge after seeing only this comment section, dudes 😮
Yes,
People who are uneducated about the issues should do their own research, or AT LEAST a 2 minute google search before they put their uneducated opinions forward.
It’s not their fault that they’re uneducated about east Asian history that goes back decades and centuries and more. They don’t learn it as part of basic schooling, that’s not their fault.
But PLEASE for the love of whatever they believe in, these people need to spewing ignorance.
yup, this is a game. just game.
I want to recommend that next pack ‘spring in germany’
please add new Nazi’s Hakenkreuz flag
I like Germany more than Japan
Because it was Japanese who killed my family NOT NAZZI
So please let me use that nazzi’s flag too
there is no “Willy Brandt” in japan
Japan has never apologized,
Japan gave money to Park Jung-hee(=Masao Takaki Dedicates Loyalty to the King of Japan)
Only $300 million, The money was not received by the victim.
please Japan asks Park Jeong-hee’s daughter to return the money
there are comments above that quote how Japan has apologised. Please stop lying.
And comparing what the Nazis did to this, let me tell you as a Jew, that is completely out of line, please stop with that too.
and as many have said, that’s a fan, not a flag. Are all of you missing your glasses?
Please stop saying Koreans shouldn’t voice pain and anger caused by imperial Japan’s atrocities, that is completely out of YOUR line.
Sure Japan made some pacifying gestures (inadequate mostly), but you also don’t know the complicated political, economical and cultural implications behind those gestures, let alone the long ass history between Korea and Japan.
And by your logic, I hope you’d be ok with EA putting in swastikas on clothing in a hypothetical “Asian” pack because it’s a buddhist symbol. I hope you’ll have YOUR glasses on then.
I’m unsure if you’re the same commenter from above, I’ll guess so. You stated above that they hadn’t apologised, and continue to say that they have made “pacifying gestures” and that they are “inadequate mostly” (judged by whom? by you?). If you scroll up a bit, there is a very long and good post with dates of all the times the Japanese or the Japanese government has apologised; usually in the presence of South Korean government officials – who never interrupted the Japanese to say that such “pacifying gestures” (as you deem them) were “inadequate”.
I have read history as a hobby, as I am interested in it, since I was a young kid, since I was eight years-old. I think you saying that “you also don’t know the long ass history between Korea and Japan” is crude and inaccurate. I would suggest you to stop assuming things about other people without asking them first, it’s quite impolite.
I indeed know of he significance of the Swastika for Indian esotericism and culture. I for one can separate the terrible use it was given by the Nazis and Nazism, to the positive and honest use that it has been given by Hindus and Buddhism, especially since its use dated much earlier than the Nazis. To brand India, Buddhism, or Hindus in general – as Nazi sympathizers would be so ridiculous and inaccurate, that your comparison is making me feel almost insulted.
I’m from South Korea, but those who get easily mad about Japanese Culture called “Dae-kkae-moon” and it’s dealt as a mental diseases. Dae-kkae-moons insult Japanese and their culture but loves and post about nintendo switch games, photos of Japanese snack and sushi, and boasting their Japan themed possessions. They are absolutely double-faced. And one more thing, although my ancestor helped independence army of Korea before, but I learned about ‘cultural relativism’ and chose ‘coexistense’ with Japan. We are living 21st century and need to be mature citizens. Do not take it serious to Dae-kkae-moons, they are just attention seekers and just want to be regarded as a nationalist.
Don’t give them some overthetop, biased infos already…. “Dae-kkae-moon” is more like politically offensive word(assaulting both current South korean president and his followers) in the first place.
dakchigo kuzer sibal zottbeongshin saikiya
ni sujun ameba inger tee naejimallgo gasu jassal ina haera
gaebeoungsin saekiga daekkaemoon gatten sori haro zirraliya
ni jossangnim chinillpha ingaba?
ilbon yeerasu mungae inge anira sinsa chambae rang ukillgi ga munje in gu mollasu hanenmall yeeno? hagin ni gorilla rang saram yeezzonggyobae ro taeunan neoun yeerasu sanggak mottagi TT
Why are white americans fuming about Koreans being upset? It doesn’t fucking affect you so why do you care about EA having to change a clothing texture and an animation? Why does it tilt y’all so much, that you have to write essays in the comments, explaining how “SJWs are ruining the games for you” and “people are overly sensitive”.
Thank you. Very good point.
And “iT’s JuSt A gAmE” in some of their words, so why are all these non-Asian people fuming here and everywhere else over a clothing texture and an animation that has nothing to do with them to begin with.
Ughhhhhh.
If EA put any NAZI signs and Hitler salutein in this game. I totally agree with this disgusting Japanese things. I do not understand why other people(non Korean) speak to us “This is just game why so serious? Japan they have apologised ?!”
A nation that forgets its past has no future.
역사를 잊은 민족에게 미래는 없다.
한국사람들은 들으십시오. 무식한 외국인들 말에 상처받지 마시고 역사를 잊지 마십시다.
Okay, I read all of the comments after mine and also there is one who think Japan is not apologing either. I’d like to talk about why I or we feel like that ‘although they apologized..’ So why this issue is still painful to Korean. Of course the judgement or searching more informations depends on you.
*Caution*
This text is dealing with political topics. And I feel sorry to talk about it in here. But there are many things that most of you might not know, so if you want to know, please read.
One user’s comment about quotes of the japan’s apologies are just from the Wikipedia and it didn’t include the explanation about the political, social background, and what is implicit in.. When it comes to Korean and Japanese grammar, it is totally okay to make sentences without subject and object, and each verb and adjective has really subtle meanings, so Japan made some of their ‘apologies’ so vague. Also many of the ‘apologies’ were made because they had to corrct the bad situation happened by their previous minister who didn’t reflect on their faults in history, (and this is being repeated) or because they wanted to make important contracts with Korea.
If someone stronger punches or slaps you in the face at work or school then says “I am sorry” half- giggling, is that an apology? Is he/she really reflecting on that? There are a lot of statements or actions that later retracted or contradicted or protecting their faults, as much as the number of apologies. (Why is these kind of data hardly translated in English?..) And the head of goverment often worshipped to Yasukuni Shrine even after just he had ‘apologized’, which means he paid tribute to the WAR CRIMINALS instead of VICTIMS..
I admit there are some thoughtful statements, but if they were genuine apologies, they should continue until nowadays. But the Japanese gov. of present day, keep distorting or concealing or stopping apologizing about what they did to victims like territory, enforced sex slaves, forced draft and etc. For instance, above three historical facts are distorted or deleted in the Japanese history education.
Finally, I would like to add this quote:
“Apologies should not end truth seeking nor stifle truth telling by victims. Instead, an apology should encourage a collective reckoning by society of conflict-related crimes or human rights violations carried out in the name of the state. An apology should open up space for accountability rather than close it.”
-from a ICTJ report about Japan’s apologies.
This is so hypocritical of the Sims team they used Christian imagery in Sims medieval, the hijab is an item in Sims 4, they reference Zen in Spa Day and ancestor worship in Island Living. Why the fuck Korean’s think they’ve got any exclusive rights to erase another cultures religion just because that religion was at one point run by dickbags is beyond me, if that were the case Islam and Christianity and basically every religion under the sun would never see the light of day. The Sims 4 is American they should stand by their belief in religious freedom and just censor the local Korean version and make the choice to worship one that is only done autonomously by sims from that world and everyone player controlled has to chose to do it. Problem solved.
There is just exactly same shrine motion in koreas culture.
http://life.g-enews.com/view.php?ud=2018060516252618e8b8a793f7_3
Some koreans are lying and spreding fake information to feel their anti japan power. They are just jealous cuz shrine items arent out with korean traditional clothes.
Thank you for this comment!
lmao this can’t be serious lack of cars and open world are far more worrying than this.
That is exactly the type of uneducated redneck ignorant thinking that just perpetuates racism, ignorance and indifference to anything that didn’t directly affect white people.
You would not be saying the same thing if it was a German pack with an option to buy swastika flags to decorate with, and do the Nazi salute.
You’re blanketing all white people with Nazis .. that’s uneducated and ignorant.
I hope EA does address this issue, seems like they’ve dropped the ball again.
They have addressed the issue.
They got rid of the bowing motion and the Rising Sun swatches.
The shrines themselves are staying, don’t worry all of you non-Japanese people suddenly obsessed with observing Japanese religious customs
If you dont like the pack, dont buy it. Pls dont spoil the pack for others. Not all carry hatred in our hearts. Past is history. I just enjoy all packs. and Im Asian
Bunch of douche bag thinking about game very seriously? Its a game dumbass! Do you have to take this serious?
I think everyone needs too calm down for now, give EA a chance too comment, maybe it’s not what it looks like, I’m sure EA wouldn’t of done this on purpose
Honestly? Getting offended over imagery? That shows how bad and easily offended the Sims community and EAxis has become. No wonder Sims 4 is the worst iteration in the franchise. I play the game to escape real life, not have some silly controversial plum shoved down my throat. Sometimes I wonder why EA chose to pander to the SJW crowd in the first place. If you can’t respond to different opinions in a mature way, that says a lot about you as a person.
Besides, if EAxis is so worried about representation, why haven’t they included every single culture and tradition? Would that be too much for them? I thought they have intended for the Sims 4 to be all equal, happy joy joy, and a safe space simulator… unless I’m missing something. Why don’t they call it quits on the Sims franchise altogether, since TS4 is already lackluster without all the pandering?
Indeed, can’t wait ’till we get 193 packs to represent each and every country, lol!
Different person here, and yes, I understand your sarcasm and I agree completely. EA CANNOT possibly represent each and every country and culture, which is exactly why they should steer clear of topics and cultural aspects that can cause controversies like this.
Sims 4 has avoided putting symbols and aspects of cultures and religions that can be controversial so far (eg. no Christian cross, no “Chirstmas” (just winterfest), etc.) so why must they now include shinto and imagery that has even the slightest resemblance to the Rising Sun? Why couldn’t they replace those with other non-controversial aspects of Japanese culture?
If they had done a tad more research, they would’ve realized the potential for controversies and would’ve (and should’ve) left them out.
(+ The argument “Shinto is a huge part of Japanese culture and shrines are everywhere, of course it has to be included” doesn’t stand because religion has shaped the cultures of so many different countries but they’ve been left out)
Dude… This is their equivalent to Nazi imagery. I hate SJWs and Tumblr snowflakes, but this is a whole different level than just getting upset over lack of skintones (that you an easily just download CC for).
This isn’t just social justice bullshit. It’s decades of tension between two countries over colonialism and war crimes (real neat stuff, you know like human experimentation, mass murders, and sexual slavery). Expanding your worldview would probably help you understand cultural nuances outside the western world. You wouldn’t sound so ignorant.
@Whut your arguments failed so much you had to use “whut” as your name. bad.
If they are correct in their assertions, Christianity is also deeply rooted in war. The Koreans are crazy.
Christianity and “Christians” have committed atrocities in the name of religion. Hence symbols like the cross and items like the bible are not part of this game at all.
Same rule of avoiding potentially sensitive aspects of culture and religion should be applied to ALL packs.
Also, in case you can’t read, Koreans are not angry about the religion of Shinto. This issue is not about religion in and of itself at all.
As a Jewish person, the complaints about the inclusion of the shrines made me think about Christianity and it’s treatment of Jewish people throughout history. (And to some extent still do, sure it’s much much better nowadays, but it’s not all gone. Hell I have been personally insulted by Christians for not believing in Jesus, and I’m not even going to get into the connection between anti-jewish Christian theology and modern antisemitism.)
Sometimes the overwhelming presense of Christianity in American popular media can be quite obtrusive (sorry for the 5$ word) and make me feel uncomforterble. (it’s worst when it goes unacknowledged, as if the Christian elements are universal beliefs.) But I’m still having hard time grokking this complaint, I’m trying to change the shrine to a church or a cross in my mind and the worst reaction I can imagine myself having is simply avoiding this interaction.
Of course the Smis usually intentionally avoids real world religious symbols (Though I can think of a couple of exceptions), so ultimately removing the interacting might be the right decision simply for the sake of uniformity.
Ok, so I see from this that there is symbolism in this pack that is offensive to South Koreans and I empathize with how this can be hurtful. I also think in this current environment, EA could be more proactive to make sure their content would not be offensive. That said, I’m deeply disappointed with comments that express that if you are not South Korean, you have no right to an opinion on this subject. Everyone has a right to an opinion on any subject and we should have the right to express our opinions showing respect to others. I’m bothered with the denial of these rights by some.
I don’t think it’s about the nationality but more about understanding the culture. Everyone is entitled to their opinions but making offensive or generalizing comments without actually knowing the context defies the purpose of the argument… Like I see some people sayinh krns are being over-sensitive but they don’t even care to know why…?
But no one makes that Korean worship that house. Lay simply somewhere in the garden. Build a fence around it so that no one goes there. The Japanese will worship their house if they want to. This is how we can find a place in the history of any nation.
I am not familiar with the history between Korea and Japan and after seeing the trailer I try to find youtube reaction by either Koren or Japanese with no luck 🙁 … I will like to been educated on this important history matter, now this new pack seems inspired by Japanese culture( or Orientalisation let’s say) but if is Japanese I just looked on Wikipedia:
A Shinto shrine (神社, jinja, archaic: shinsha, meaning: “place of the god(s)”[1]) is a structure whose main purpose is to house (“enshrine”) one or more kami.[2] Its most important building is used for the safekeeping of sacred objects, and NOT for WORSHIP .[3] Although only one word (“shrine”) is used in English, in Japanese, Shinto shrines may carry any one of many different, non-equivalent names like gongen, -gū, jinja, jingū, mori, myōjin, -sha, taisha, ubusuna, or yashiro. (For details, see the section Interpreting shrine names.)
if this is the case again a poor and ignorant approach of EA on culture :-/ not happy!
From my understanding, Shinto shrine housed different kamis (divines) over the history. In modern Japan, it is more like a cultural activity with folklore than a religious practice, but during Japanese imperialism, shrines were installed and used to worship the Japanese emperor (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_Shinto). This is the image of Shinto that is most recalled by Koreans who were forced to worship, thus the reason for the negative feedback.
Honestly, yes I agree this was a poor approach on EA’s part
actually, why would it be wrong in a LIFE SIMULATION game to have what is there in the real world? we can have shrines and swastikas and polish racism and everything good and bad in the game – you decide if your sims love it or hate it, join it or destroy it. isn’t it the game’s signature to play with life? and all of it’s aspects? just my opinion
oh my gosh, i just realised i wrote ‘polish racism’. didn’t mean it! it was in my head because of a comment above. polish people are not all racist, im not. i just meant in general racism and bad stuff. just wanted to put that out there. my bad.
not ALL Korean simmers are angry, only some of them are complaining. they do not represent the entire SK sims community, I would be really angry if we get zero content because of this, and I am definitely not the only one. The shrines themselves are not a problem at all, and there is no reason to connect this to the controversial shrines that are actually causing political problems. but I can also see some comments here expressing general hatred towards Koreans and I’m deeply frustrated by those too.
Just let EA do their thing and if you don’t like it, don’t buy it.
thank you! someone with a brain.
How many of the SK simmers that are offended were actually going to buy the pack to begin with if one of the main complaints is that this is Japanese inspired? It’s not like this isn’t the first time the sims has leaned towards Japan for inspiration in the franchise. I came across a japanese shrine before in the sims but I’m not sure if it’s from a previous game or custom content. I often see people who aren’t from the Shinto religion visit temples and shrines as a tourist attraction and this is sort of like that as the appeal for the game. Since the resources have already been used EA may very well take that feature out which will be a bit disappointing for certain gameplay styles/stories.
Please, Koreans have proven to be too selfish, they say we should know about their history, but they did BLACKFACE and they skipped the accusations saying: Why are we supposed to know about black history? They’re not as educated as we thought, this is like the third korean tantrum of this kind of the year, such a shame for such an “advanced society”.
Koreans loooove their anti-black racism (just check most of the gaffes of their beloved K-Pop groups they love to export abroad) but also love to act all offended at the slight mention of Japan.
These things are not black and white. As a Korean myself, who lived in Korea for more than 10 years and went through my entirety of grade school days in Korean public school system, I learned a lot about Japanese occupation of Korea and the history behind it.
I am personally very interested in the history of the short lived Korean Empire, and the last end of Joseon Dynasty, and also the Japanese occupied Korea as I heard many stories from both my grandmas about that time. Forceful Shinto Shrine Worship was indeed used by the Japanese Government to make Koreans “황국민화” which basically means assimilating them to Japanese culture esp towards the end of the ’30s. Usually these forceful worships were required by big schools, gov departments, universities, christian organizations and buddhist organization. When the organization deny to worship, the organizations were then lowered in grade ( ex- from university to just vocation school) or forcefully dissolved. I see some people claim people were tortured and killed, and although that did happen a few times, especially for more well known activists from religious organization, the more common punishment for the general public was the forceful disassembly of their organization or the blockage of religious freedom.
Yes, it is a painful history for Koreans and even my Grandma said so as she was going to a prestigious woman’s high school during the ’30s and were forced to do shinto worship- However it is not the entire religion to be blamed for being problematic, it is more so the Japanese government’s audacity to use their religion as a tool to create more pain and discrimination is to be blamed for.
The biggest controversy with Koreans and Japanese shinto worship is not actually the entire shinto religion also, it is more so specifically the Yasukuni Shinto shrine in Tokyo where they have pretty barbaric WW2 war criminals there as deities to be worshipped for. All modern Japanese prime ministers pay specific tribute to these war criminals and mass murderers as gods, despite high criticism from Koreans and Chinese who were tortured and assimilated to a certain level culturally by those specific war criminals.
The truth is, Japan continued the same line of emperors that committed all the tragedies and massacres during that time until now- albeit they are ceremonial after the WW2 and quite detached from what they used to mean, but the history is still fresh enough to Koreans that it could be sensitive- Like how my grandma grew up under that regime, and to this day she still speaks complete fluent Japanese and uses Japanese words here and there.
These are all layered and complicated history in East Asian countries not just specific to Koreans, but mostly had a bigger impact for Koreans, Chinese, and Taiwanese people. I don’t think including a shinto shrine was the best move as you can see many people can be triggered from it- the reason behind it is partially rooted in true historical facts, but also behind it’s complicated relationship between the Japanese Government never owning up to their war crimes and Korean people projecting the anger towards the entirety of Japanese culture over specifically their government.
I personally do not like seeing the rising sun motif more as it has a more direct connection to the actual imperial government who is to be blamed for all the atrocity and tragedy that occurred in history of East Asia. So that kimono with a slight similarity to the rising sun motif is definitely tacky and shows lack of research in East Asian relations and history which is very complicated. I do think including a religious element like shinto shrine was risky as you can clearly see by the outrage, but to me it is more about people having awareness of which part of their history is to be blamed for.
I do not believe in condemning any entire religion or culture; condemning the entire shinto religion is not really what we should be focusing on to better the relationship and create clear factual history between the Korean people and Japanese people. So it is not black and white like that to my point of view- Although I understand the outrage because of the actions of the imperial Japanese government which still lingers culturally in the Korean peninsula.
I hope EA decides to drop the Kimono jacket with the motif of the rising sun on it- However the Shinto shrine issue would be a harder one to address- as to many regular Japanese people, it has been their culture for a very long time of worshipping. (I do strongly oppose the worship of Yasukuni Shinto shrine or any shrine that has a war criminal as a deity thought.) Maybe if they can tweak it so it could be more generally Asian, more Asian players would enjoy it. I believe if it was generally Buddhist themed which is somewhat of a universal culture which expands all over Asia, it would’ve been taken way better.
After all, it is a sim world not the actual Japan, so why not make it more of an universal Asian experience? Just my thoughts here. If anyone found my comment offensive, I sincerely apologize.
This is the sentiment I follow as a fellow Korean. And it concerns me that this is overlooked while aggressive, ignorant, propagandist and possibly racist responses aren’t.
It’s not about the religion itself but about the complicated implications of it.
Why include a specific religion in the first place if even a relatively universal cultural events like Christmas is going to be renamed as Winterfest? With a little research on the shinto shrine, the Sims team ought to have known that it would be problematic.
I also agree that a generally Buddhist theme would have been less controversial, if the Sims really wanted to insist the inclusion of this stereotypical ‘Asian’ image.
Perhaps to non Asian players the negative reaction from Korean simmers might seem like a sudden burst of anger, but really this isn’t the first time EA has been culturally insensitive about representing Asians. Rising sun motif has been used almost consistently throughout the Sims series.
It is not OK just because you see that it is commonly used elsewhere. Rather, that itself shows the extent of unawareness and ignorance in understanding the significance of a symbol that is so closely associated with war. Yes, there are arguments about whether or not that association is valid, but how can you say otherwise when that flag was hung up literally next to Hakenkreuz? (https://img.theqoo.net/qGHsG) That it was a sign of oppression and violence less than a hundred years ago?
Don’t call out offended people butt-hurt just because you are too ignorant and lazy to do a proper research to understand the complex Asian history and relationships. If your claim is that it’s just a game, why are you so butt-hurt about removing a possibly insensitive feature? It’s just a game as you say, easily replaceable by any other orientalist contents many so desire. I’m sure there are many other beautiful Japanese prints and activities other than the rising sun and paying tribute to the shrines.
I am not going to speak for any other cultures because it is not my place to do so, likewise how as a person with no relevant cultural or historic understanding cannot tell others how to feel.
Thank you for this eloquent comment.
As a fellow Korean (with a very similar background as yours!), I couldn’t have explained /summarized the issues more clearly, and I really wish the Sims team could see this exact comment somehow.
I myself have a great grandfather who was tortured weekly by Japanese police (pulling out nails, beatings, etc.) to write pro-Japanese propaganda, not to mention countless other Koreans (and other Asians) who were victims of horrendous acts of colonial Japan.
But I wish people would understand that
1) Koreans are not against the ancient religion itself or the people who practice it peacefully today. It’s not really about the religion itself at all
2) One cannot draw direct parallels between the impact of Japan on east Asian history and current sentiments and Germany on European (and world) history, because of how differently Germany and Japan have been dealing with their own past. (e.g. Lack of proper education in schools about Japan’s war crimes, injustices against Korean victims of sexual slavery, political figures continuously worshipping war criminals at Yasukuni, etc.)
Anyways, I think your suggestion to change to buddhist theme makes a lot of sense, and is helpful feedback that the sims team could use (and could have used so that this controversy didn’t have to happen to begin with)
Maybe the sims shouldn’t do any cultural inspired themes . It just cause so much confusion and backlash every time .they should really focus on the gameplay , cars , farms , better babies ect. Culture is such a touchy subject . Also they can’t possibly represent every culture anyways . Or they can just stick to the small free updates with a new shirt and hat .
People push so hard for ea to include culture . But it always get some kind of backlash
culture is a huge part of life. i personally want more of it. i love diversity and i love the styles and clothes and food from all around the world.
one can only imagine Jovan Jovic’s face when he sees this mess of comments lol
I thought that too…
Their getting mad because ep isn’t based in their country…
But there is some reasons they keep saying like that.
Got anti Japanese education and believing everything or believing convenient fabrication history for them.
And for money…and another…
Although, people trying to get along are increase recently than before.
Anyway, I hope players like that pack and enjoy it because I’m glad based on Japan!
And apologize for my poor English lol
This is reply to jaks
And what makes you think your “education” (if at all) is not biased, and that it’s not fabricated” in some way shape or form?
I’m Korean, and I’m perfectly fine with the pack being Japanese. There are other parts of Japanese culture that are cool and not offensive.
That’s not the issue.
Hey guess what!! ITS A GAME! if your offended by it then don’t play it. Call of duty is a game about killing other people, Farcry is about cultures killing and kidnapping people… Shall I go on. Sims is a game about playing how you want to play it’s accuracy on today’s cultures shouldn’t have a say in what they choose to put in the game when there are other games that are way “worse” but in the end they are all just GAMES
if you market your game to people who do care about social issues you should listen to them about social issues
But shrine worship is not limited to WWii. EA could’ve made a toggle to not make the sims bow instead of removing it altogether.
Wow I can’t believe I’m reading some of these comments in 2020. Some of you are ignorant af and should be ashamed of yourselves.
If you are not a part of the culture that has been affected by the colonialism, you don’t get a say in whether they are “too sensitive or not” or whether they should accept the apology or not.
Also, yes this is a game, however EA made a stance that they are also socially and culturally aware and are trying to be inclusive. So it’s also very understandable that if this game is offensive to many people, they should learn from it. For all of you that’s just saying this is a game get over it, you wouldn’t be saying that if something that was gut wrenchingly offensive (like the Nazi symbol) was included in a pack called “European Vacation”.
No one from Korea is saying they are offended because it’s not based on their culture or that it’s about Japan. They’re simply pointing out EA’s ignorance, orientalism, and lack of education on history. They should have never included something controversial and offensive.
If you are a non-Korean person commenting here about how sensitive Koreans are, that’s a clear sign of white privilege and you should be ashamed of yourselves.
This is a game, not a subject to learn in school. Are you kidding me with this! This world is going to hell and is becoming communist. Every one is butthurt, get over it. It’s just a very cool game and a complete fantasy with made up worlds. Why don’t the offended go and create their own communistic games, where everybody’s the same, and everything is equal and peachy keen.
Butthurt well I am butthurt about Star Wars. How come in real life we don’t have spaceships yet that is because we are too idiotic arguing about what happened in the past. Most of those people are dead. And you’re talking about colonizers well then you’re going to have to look at white people and don’t do anything their culture dose: can’t speak English, French, German, etc, can’t eat any of their food, can’t wear their clothes, can’t listen to their music. Now same goes for Japanese so now what am I supposed to do with my Toyota drive it off the bridge? Is this what the world really wants? Punishing a culture for its past? This is disgusting.
Oh, yeah. Then I wanna see your reaction if EA has drawn a design of “NAZI FLAG”. PUT YOURSELF IN OTHER’S SHOES!!! It’s not about it’s just the game or not. Rising Sun Flag is the insult to other Asian countries, like Korea.
I’m majoring Japanese language in college and I love Japanese culture. But, Shrine Worship and Rising Sun Flag? That is absolutely the problem that we should consider.
When japan had succeeded taking control of Korea’s solid, they forced Koreans to participate in Shrine worship, if not, Japanese cops harshly punished them.
Rising Sun Flag represents the imperialism and invasion same as NAZI FLAG.
Just a game?? Then why EA had claimed to advocate LGBT and BLACK LIVES MATTER?? Even though it’s just a game as you said??
I agree with the freedom of expression and I think too much Political Correction should not interfere the development of game. BUT, IT’S THE ANOTHER PROBLEM, NOT A COMMUNISM AND NOT A PC ISSUES.
RISING SUN FLAG = NAZI FLAG
Ok so KOREAN FLAG = NAZI FLAG
In you theory, South Korean Flag should be banned at all because it represents massive rape and massacre done by South Korea in Vietnam War. The worst thing is that South Korea government has never apologized what they did, and is still continuing to insult the Vietnamese victims by revisionism. Shame on your hypocrisy.
Nazis killed my great-grandparents so if the flag was in the game I just wouldn’t use it, would I be offended no. Because that’s in the past and now it’s just sad history.
I honestly think there should be nothing political in the game or religious but it is what it is it’s creative expression. Everybody is so fragile that it’s ridiculous no wonder there’s so much mental health problems now n days. People can’t express themselves without being backlashed at as they might offend a few millions out of billions of people. It’s just a game just don’t use those items.
This is their equivalent to Nazi imagery. I don’t like SJWs either, but a less narrow worldview and a slight idea of other culture’s nuances would help you understand WHY they are so angry. This is a touchy subject and there are still tensions over Japan’s WWII war crimes.
I agree. While on one hand I understand the frustration over these two pictures, I also think that the young generation of South Korea have to stop this feud between Japan and Korea. Practically all European countries have forgiven Germany a looong time ago, and we visit old war bunkers to learn about horrific past, but do not become aggravated, because it’s in the past.
It’s time to forgive – and celebrate Japanese culture for what it is.
And as Kelly’s saying, while it’s inspired by Japanese culture, the game is a fantasy! Just change what the shrines mean in your game – you have the freedom and power to do that.
Stop getting offended just to be offended. You can avoid using the shrine interaction, you can choose a different swatch for the yukata, I’m sure there are plenty others.
You are ignorant af
I’m a Korean, and I personally have mixed feelings about this. I agree you that the relationship between Korea and Japan should be clarified one way or another, but do know that it is very complicated. The very vestige of Japanese imperialism is deeply woven into Korean history, economy, politics and of course the nation’s social feelings even until now. It’s not about just being “offended.”
And your Nazi analogy is quite inaccurate – yeah many European countries got over Germany, but you certainly don’t want EA to put Nazi flags on some frickin sims’ clothes lol. I can also kinda imagine why EA adopted shrine culture – it’s a part of Japanese culture – but as it is indicated in the original Korean comment, the concept is not very comfortable for the people living in the once-colonized country. Yes, I know that Japan has many gods and most of the shrines are for worshiping gods. But the concern is that some Japanese shrines have imperialists who had done horrible things to their colonies and many politicians in Japan (usually on far-right) still bow to that. It’s a political matter too. Imagine that there’s a monument worshiping dedicated to war criminals in your game that you can make your sim bow to.
Personally I don’t know about the shrine, but I certainly oppose to the clothes with rising sun imagery. (The situation’s quite funny when you realize that this is an American game lol) The game should be enjoyable to everyone, especially when Korean users are accounting for a significant proportion of sims lovers – after all it’s a new ‘snowy’ expansion pack, not ‘Japan’ expansion pack. Why include it if it’s controversial?
I agree that the rising sun imagery should be taken down and that they should keep the shrine interactions. But I will point out that the pack description does literally say the furniture is “Japanese-inspired” and all the words they use are Japanese such as “onsen”, “genkan”, and “tatami”. So I think it’s safe to say that this world is specifically Japanese-based. I would get rid of the rising sun imagery since that was the official flag of the military, but keep the shrine worshipping since that is still something that modern japanese people do.
Wow. You’re likening Korea’s subjugation by Japan, and erasure of their culture, and Koreans being FORCED to worship at Japanese shrines, to communism? Do you even know what Communism is? Do you realize communism and colonialism are two different things? Like, I’m sorry Karen (I mean, Kelly) if other people being hurt is like super inconvenient for you, but they’re not obligated to keep you comfortable just because you don’t have empathy. Sociopath.
Maybe you need to embrace some new subjects, in fact, because you sound like a moron right now. You could certainly benefit from some empathy, because you sound like a selfish asshole right about now. While I’m sure you’ve lived a fairly privileged life, I’m sure there are things of value to you that would upset you if they were misrepresented. Like your religion, or the history of your country (since you’re white and probably American, I can’t say culture. lol).
The Sims is a life simulation game, that means it should be enjoyable by ALL people, not just a select few. While I agree that this is a game and I don’t think fictional characters should be held to human social standards of conduct, I do believe that everyone has a right to their opinions and how a game makes them feel when they play it. Not everyone’s experience with TS4 is going to be the same. For you to diminish someone else’s experience by trying to eclipse it with your own is not only showing your white privilege, but you are telling people that you only care about your experience with the game and no one else’s. What kind of message are you trying to get across? You call people overly sensitive, but these things never happened to you. So who are you to tell another person how they should feel about an experience? As a white female this offends even me that you would act and say something so insensitive. You can’t got through life only looking through your own perspective, you should never close yourself or your mind off to seeing things from another’s perspective. I stand in solidarity with my Korean sisters and I will not be buying this pack of that is the case. As a company EA has a track record a mile long of doing shady and immoral things to turn a quick profit.
Your whole response is kind of contradicting itself what about Japanese what if they want the shrine. You are right this is supposed to be enjoyed by everyone so now Japanese might not enjoy it because they don’t have the shrine.
You could read my comment down below and see if any of this has ever happened to me. Don’t be accusative especially online.
If that’s what your Korean friends are saying I get it but you should never as a white female speak for another race or culture.
Koreans have no complaints about Sims making expansion packs with Japanese culture. The only thing that matters is the shrine worship interaction. It is related to the pain of Japan’s colonial rule of Korea. Many Koreans who refused to worship the shrine were killed by the Japanese military. That is less than a hundred years old. So We want EA to delete the interaction with the shrine worship.
People were slaughtered for not worshipping these shirines. And Japan dosen’t apologize or even acknowledge these past including genocidal rape. And EA just represented symbol of Japanese war crime in sims4. This is why korean people including other country that suffered from Japanese war crime are so mad.
Oh my god come on it’s a Japanese culture based game pack.. why are the korean getting offended over Shintoism temple worshiping which is all over Japan and the sun rays which is not even the same rising sun imperialist one which is red. They wanna say they feel offended by Japanese imperialism, other countries like Malaysia, Indonesia and Singapore had it too but we got over it and moved on. Again, all these are japanese culture. Get your offended asses checked. Sheesh
Please, Koreans: Don’t speak for other Asian countries.
Please, non-Koreans: Don’t speak for Koreans.
Apologies if I offended you or anyone else
‘got it and moved on’ lol you speak of war as if it’s a common cold. So tell me, how many years was Singapore colonized? How was it colonized? How many torture camps were set up? How many people were forced to become sex slaves? A black and white photo of you will still be a photo of you. Get your history book checked.
you’re not even Korean, we all already realised that, you know.
I don’t know why my opinion be accepted differently depending on my nationality but if I must validate, no I am a Korean. And please don’t misunderstand my response as a hatred towards Japanese culture. I have no problems (and I assume a lot of other Koreans too) with the theme itself. Cool. Japanese theme.
The only concerns I do share with many are on the shrine and the rising sun pattern. The sims have been sensitive about including religious features, and filtered them out to be universally acceptable cultural activities instead (i.e. winterfest). Shrine seems a tad too religious + the motion, like we don’t pray to the Christmas tree do we?
But at the same time, I understand that it is a common cultural, not necessarily religious, practice in Japan and removing it could offend Japanese simmers. That’s why I think the sims team was insensitive and shouldn’t have included it in the first place.
What’s so contradicting? It’s a culture with a political root enforced during a recent war. To Koreans, shinto shrine is a symbol of oppression and aggression. To those unaware like you, it’s a culture. A little research would tell that it could be problematic to include it and yet the sims do so, to the extend of making the sims ‘bow’ to it. Hell, if they really wanted to include shrines for the sake of aesthetics in a fictional game world, why not just let the sims throw a coin into it instead? To me it just seems like a poor attempt on the sims part to create this orientalist image using the most streotypical motion as possible.
And I really don’t understand why you would call out others for being selfish and disrespectful because they feel disrespected by insensitive portrayals?? You tried to disapprove my argument because I was seemingly not Korean and yet you speak for what is acceptable for Koreans to be offended about and what is not???
Are you really concerned about Koreans discriminating Japanese when that is entirely not the case, or are you just conviniently picking on it because you are worried that you will not be able to play a game? Come on, you said it yourself. How can you be judgemental when you don’t understand the history and the culture. That’s a selfish behavior isn’t it?
And just in case you bring up “it’s all in the past” bs, look up Yasukuni shrine fyi
but that’s just one shrine not all shrines
“it is a common cultural practice in Japan”
“not necessarily religious”
“shouldn’t have included it”
do you understand that you’re literally admitting it yourself that you are in the wrong about this, right? talk about a storm in a teacup.
Come on… you know nothing about their history too. You can’t talk like that when you are not Singaporean. Stop being rude if you want the history of your home country respected. Why you guys are so selfish and disrespectful to other cultures?
Exactly. I can’t talk like that when I don’t understand Singaporean history. Because I know that no matter then extent, a painful history is still painful.
So why are you telling Koreans to get their offended asses check? Why are you offended by my comment?
Because shrine worship is not limited to WWii. Komorebi is a Japan inspired tourist town, not Japan controlled Korea land.
It’s unfair to remove it altogether instead of making it optional.
To be honest, we are jealous of the popularity of Japanese culture.
Korea is getting more and more popular everyday because of Kpop, Kdramas, and KBBQ food. So don’t be too jealous. Lots of Southeast Asian countries are jealous of Korea lol.
You probably didn’t realize, but this person’s using the name of a Korean ex-president who won the Nobel Peace Prize (Kim dae-jung), and is hated & mocked by extreme right. This person’s not being genuine, they’re just trolling and trying to stir shit up.
Context context context.
This is a Sims Japan analogue.
Meaning this is either a Japanese person or someone who chose to vacation to Japan paying respect to a Japanese shrine.
Not a S.Korean being forced to greet a Japanese shrine.
It’s like saying that we can’t have the Galar region in Pokémon because of the historical British empire having happened.
So why don’t we just add Nazi salute in Sims 4 so neo nazi person or someone who chose to vacation to austria paying repsect to hitler can enjoy this game.
If you really look at the swatch screenshot it’s not a rising sun but a stylized fan. Maybe that’s still considered too similar but we should stick to reality here.
If you think that rising sun symbol and flag is okay to use, than you shouldn’t say anything to people who use nazi swastika or Confederate flag.
If you think japanese occupation of korea is just past, than you should think that slavery in america and holocost of nazi is just a past.
some miss writing, holocost -> holocaust
Honestly wouldn’t be surprised if EA scrapped the entire project, and gave us all a stuff pack instead
Stop being so over-sensitive! It’s Japanese THEMED do you know what that means? It’s not a true Historical Analogy. Look hard enough and some of you will FIND something to be offended about. Just play and shut up.
Shrines in Japan are used for protection of places than a place of worship and the pattern on the clothing looks like Surihaku pattern which is usually made with gold foil (yellow colour) and is a ‘spiny ray ‘ looking flower. It is used for theatrical costumes and formal ceremonies on their kimonos. Not trying to excuse anything and I truly respect and love the korean culture. But just sharing information
They’ve ripped Christianity from the game to the point where we’re calling Christmas “Winterfest” and Valentine’s Day “Love Day”, but now we’re possibly getting shrine worship? No thanks.
Exactly.
If EA’s going to leave out religion out of the game (which they should, to avoid all this shit), they should leave out ALL of it.
They only brought in Shinto because it’s eXoTiC and we love good ol’ orientalism.
A lot of people are missing that Koreans are focusing on their history, not the Japanese culture itself.
EA, you HAVE TO delete the content that would hurt your players, not because the culture is wrong, but because there ARE some heartbreaking histories.
heartbreaking histories? lady, this is not an historical soap opera.
why don’t we delete windenburg too, since it is heavily inspired by germany and well… we all know what they’ve done.
hmm?
Like I said, not about the culture itself. It will be helpful to understand their position if you know history 🙂
I’m a history graduate Ellen, and let me tell, if that’s your photo, you’re one ugly girl. Yes, you can act offended about that one.
Euro-centric history degree amirite
Some koreans are wrong and lying about their logics of “shrine blah blah”. That shrine thing in game is just like wishing well not even religious one. They are 24/7 under anti japan mood and speaks out boycotting everything about japan but sneakly enjoy japan cluture. Lol.
I imagine there’s plenty of things in Japanese culture that isn’t highly offensive and hurtful to other Asian countries?
I don’t really understand some of these “Defend EA at all cost” type comments.
EA should have done their research, simple as.
Sure, keep it as a Japanese pack but simply change the offending things to something without such a dark history? That simple.
Yes, exactly
who are you talking to? you already posted twice….
Yes, thank you for speaking sense.
There was a shinto shrine in The Sims 2. Did you complained back then, Min?
Don’t assume everyone was quiet back then. People always spoke out. It’s only that now, you hear them better
none did lmao, i remember it. and none does now either. sims 2 has an active player base, with piles of defualts/overrides of anything you could think about, and yet none has default replaced or made a hider for the oh-so-insulting shrine.
Was trying to reply to you, accidentally thanked person below twice lol stupid phone
Thanks Min for talking sense.
i’m not an ea stan. i have bashed them plenty for their many various sins. to be truly honest and having played all four sims games [and their many spinoffs], i think sims 4 is crap. nonetheless, the reaching in this thread -that many have pointed out correctly- needs to be addressed – we can’t add burglars because it triggers those that have been robbed. we can’t add a shrine because it triggers the koreans. at this point, why have a game at all if everyone is going to act so offended about everything? maybe we should make the sims 4 into a chair simulation game, maybe that won’t offend anyone. well, it may offend some tables i guess.
@So mature you’re not very mature if you’re typing “amirite”, lady. Or maybe it’s because you’re degree-less? Learn proper spelling and get back to me; oh, and shave that beard, it doesn’t suits you.
Rising sun flag? Really? All of my Chinese Simmer friends thought that was a chrysanthemum or firework pattern and still fail to see any connection at all. As for the shrines, they’re quite popular attractions for Chinese tourists and none of us see any problem with the game including it. Sure, there’re a small number of Chinese simmers I know who were appalled at the overall Japanese theme but even them didn’t find the shrines and that specific pattern particularly disturbing. I’m still befuddled why Korean simmers feel the need to speak for us.
The fact that people are glossing over this as if it is not serious is disgusting, especially the Imperial JPN flag on the CAS item.
That flag was flown by Nazi-allied Japan in WW2, and Japan still refuses to acknowledge, much less make amends, for it’s genocidal war-crimes in Korea and other East Asian nations.
It is that serious and we all need to be pressuring the Sims team to remove the imagery before release.
Idgaf if your weeb fantasies get ruined by victims of genocide speaking out against hate symbols, cope.
no one cares mate. Koreans are mad they didnt get a pack based on their country. too bad, maybe next time.
Yeah. Seems like almost no one cares. That’s precisely the problem.
As long as you non-Asian people get to play with some cOoL, eXoTiC, aSiAn content, who cares about colonialism and genocide and erasing history.
Do you care about moslemic stuff and the feeling Christians get because of that? We are still attacked and murdered by them and that is not 100 years ago…
So where was the ‘Asian’ protest when EA implemented the moslem clothing including the hijab that also is a symbol for discrimination of females AND discrimination of Christian/Western culture?
pixels and a videogame equals genocide. ok baby. lol!!
and it’s not “asian” content. IT’S J-A-P-A-N-E-S-E.
That’s my point, in case you can’t read sarcasm.
So many clueless people going “omg super cool-looking Asian content uwu!!”
But then again, people who don’t know / don’t care to know / don’t care at all are the main audience of this game so in the end all of this bickering most likely won’t matter
Thank you
Electronic Arts: Add back bowing and the original swatches! Stop the disrespect for Japan! – Sign the Petition! http://chng.it/jhx9Xc2X via @ChangeAUS
I am aware that they are painful for Korean because they remind them of the period when they were colonised by Japan and Japan was really horrible during that period. However, I don’t think it’s wise for EA to remove the animation just to appease the Koreans coz bowing to the shrine is part of Japanese culture.To be frank, it’s unfair for Japanese simmers as well because bowing at the shrine is part of their culture and they have been practicing it way before World War II. Hence, I reckon it’s better to make it optional so we can decide whether our sims can bow at the shrine.
To people saying Windenburg isn’t problematic for Jewish people, etc.:
Germany and Japan differ COMPLETELY in how they dealt with the atrocities they committed in the past. Japan doesn’t teach the history properly and their leader Abe is known for going to the problematic Yasukuni shrine that commemorates war criminals, and Japan tried to make their Korean sexual slavery victims shut up with a few dollars (and the list goes on and on). THAT is why the general sentiment about the history in Korea is very negative and why it’s so freaking insensitive for EA to include imagery that brings up nightmares of Japanese colonialism for Koreans.
you just offended me with your title because i am a big worshipper of God and you offending Him in your title really offended me. you see how that works?
@polish girl Please get a life LOL! Would you truly like to see swastikas and hateful things in your sims game? The Sims is a life SIMULATION game, it is ALTERED REALITY where you can get away from hateful things like this in real life. As a Polish-German person, I find you completely ignorant and holding hatred to your own Polish culture, you’re disgracing the Polish name. Would you like to see your Polish sim family get taken to a nazi concentration camp too? Would you like to see that family broken up and tortured? Please get a brain and educate yourself on your own culture, dummy.
you have no idea about me. all i mean is that it’s life simulation and if you search the gallery there are hitlers and other dictators and worse and people play with that stuff. i don’t but it’s not like the game has nothing bad in it. if you look at the game as a perfect paradise then yes, swastikas would be a bad idea in the game. but if you saw swastikas in any other war game you wouldn’t have a problem with it cos it’s just history.
Devils advocate, but escapism is what it is to YOU. Yes others as well, but definitely not everyone. It is a SIM which by it’s nature can be a completely different thing to whoever is playing it… Maybe someone wants to RP a gritty dystopia, that’s up to them. So neither of you are suggesting incorrect ways of playing it because there isn’t one, however it is incorrect to try to sensor the way others choose to play. The idea of Swastikas all over the place is offensive to me personally, but then so is the idea of telling other people how to live so and most importantly I recognise that my opinion doesn’t count for shit in someone else’s game anyway, and it is perfectly possible to just not do the things that you don’t want to do.
Okay, so here is a short history lesson for everyone who thinks that appearance of shrines in this expansion pack is racist:
Shrines are the biggest symbol of Shinto, a very, very old Japanese native religion. Shrines were used for kami (animistic spirits and deities) worship, way before clashes between Japan and Korea.
So, please, before jumping on the ‘let’s judge this expansion pack based on what we read online’ train, try to inform yourselves about histories of Japan and Korea.
#CancelSouthKorea